The Value of the Heliocentric Geocentric Comparison

by Michael Erlewine:

Astrology as practiced today is geocentric or earth centered. Geocentric astrology is a view or charting of our solar system as seen from the perspective of the earth. We could equally imagine a Mars- or Saturn-based perspective and viewpoint. There is an increasing awareness, in these times we are living, of the value of a holistic or whole-system approach, whether it be our ecological system or our solar system. Where we consider the entire solar system as a unit, we are speaking of a sun-centered or heliocentric perspective; equally inclusive of the particular viewpoints of all of the planets within that system.

As astrologers we will inquire as to the use and value of this heliocentric approach. We can cast a chart for a birth moment as viewed heliocentrically and have an additional perspective for use with our mundane or geocentric natal chart.

If you have not had the opportunity to investigate heliocentric astrology, then you are used to approaching your Self and the questions you may have concerning that Self through the geocentric natal chart. What you may not realize is how specialized the Earth perspective of the solar system is; that is, perfectly suited for some areas of investigate, but less flexible or well suited for others. An analogy would be the existence and use of various technical languages. For instance, we might find the language of mathematics most convenient to express the various operations involving numbers. It is not that we could not somehow work our everyday language to express these operations, but simply that the language of mathematics is more convenient for this purpose. The helio and geo systems represent two ways of talking or considering the same event. Each system is a perspective involving the very same planets, at the very same instant in time, yet each system is more properly suited for specific areas of discussion. If you have been using only the geocentric system of astrology for all of your needs, then you have before you a fascinating experience. You will discover that certain questions and areas of interest, over which you may have labored for some results, works for you quite naturally when heliocentrically considered. What are these areas?

Astrologers who have investigated heliocentric astrology are in general agreement as to the relationship between the geo and the helio natal chart. The geocentric chart, with its houses and ascendant, etc., is primarily a charting of the personality and circumstances in which the individual is involved and finds himself. The helio natal chart is more representative of the kind or type of individual working with and through a given personality. It is only in fairly recent times that we have been concerned and able to distinguish that one inner self, which we can agree we share, into basic kinds of archetypes of self.

Astrology has been primarily concerned with the description and understanding of our personality -- what is called person-centered or humanistic astrology. The inner self, an experience common to all men, was not experienced as consisting of kinds or archetypes until the rise of modern depth psychology. We were primarily able to measure and work with the outer personality and specific circumstances of the individual -- the Self, but in general, it had not occurred to us to distinguish within that self the various kinds or types of self. It is these kinds or archetypes of the individual for which heliocentric astrology is ideally suited. Astrologers had labored to represent the inner self through the geocentric approach. The result of this labor has largely been a very intellectual process of psychological description understood by the very few and leaving the main body of astrologers largely unmoved. Perhaps the most remarkable achievement of modern astrology has been the development and refinement of our technique by such schools of astrology as the cosmobiologists: John Addey, Charles Jayne, E. Johndro, etc. This same technique has brought about a crisis within the rank and file astrologers. On the one hand, it has directly contributed to the precipitation of astrology and its emergence, finally, as a formal discipline that will have to be accepted by the "scientific" modern world. This seems good.

On the other hand, this technique has driven a wedge between those astrologers of a more scientific persuasion and those who have not the ability or the interest in this form of approach. This advanced technique appears to promise a future only to those astrologers who can successfully make the transition to this more formal approach. The main body of astrologers contains a great number who will not, or who cannot, make this transition. What then is the future of this body of astrologers? It is my considered opinion, and I believe a true opinion, that heliocentric astrology is a vehicle by definition inclusive of the geocentric approach and able to contain and occupy those astrologers not interested in question of technique. Here is a very graphic form of astrology accessible both to the intuitive, as well as the reasonable astrologer.

The investigation of the heliocentric approach is a refreshing and broadening experience and one capable of bringing to the geocentric approach some relief. What is perhaps hard for those not initiated into heliocentric astrology is the understanding that here is not one more technique or method to learn and use in the manipulation of the geocentric chart, but rather simply a more inclusive view -- an overview of what the geocentric chart is representing. It cannot but help to increase our awareness to compare the two types of charts for a specific birthtime. At this time, when we are finally realizing our geocentric astrology through a workable or more precise technique, what more logical point in time for the emergence of a more inclusive or general approach. Is this not the way life works? Just about the time we finally master a subject . . . we graduate? There is a celebration now going on as all of the various technical approaches to astrology join hands and flow together. My message here is that a necessary correlation for this to happen is the emergence of a holistic and more inclusive form of astrology. The first step in this process would be an astrology of our entire solar system, and that is a heliocentric astrology: an astrological system that is by definition inclusive of our geocentric approach. If this is a dawning, it has to be the sun that is coming up.

The heliocentric chart when used with the geocentric chart is the obvious companion and describes clearly that information long sought for by modern geocentric astrology. Here is the general type of configuration, in effect, for the entire system at the time of birth. Heliocentric astrology is itself the picture or graph or archetype that many modern forms of descriptive psychology have attempted to put into words. Here is a picture of the inner self that can be absorbed and considered by all manner of astrologers. With an understanding of the basic pattern of our system, we can more usefully move to the geocentric chart for the particular circumstances of personality, in and through which this type of individuality will work. Previous to this time, we have had to determine all of this using only the geocentric chart. A fine analogy to the difficulties involved in such an inquiry is that of making sense out of our personal life without going to the center and first learning to know of God and our deeper Self. Once we understand our center, what we are within our personality, we can take up the circumstances and difficulties inherent in personal existence with confidence and realization of this person we are. Helio astrology works for you and you do not work for it.

There is the opportunity for those of your who are technicians to investigate and develop the technique of geo/helio comparison. There is obviously a very precise relationship between these two perspectives. A relationship that can be measured and interpreted.

Matrix Software

Revolutionizing Astrology With Heliocentric

T Patrick Davis PMAFA Windermere, Fla.: Davis Research Reports, 1980. -Chapter 1


During the latter part of August 1979, weather forecasters began mentioning a hurricane which had spawned in the Atlantic Ocean. It looked as though it could head for the main body of Florida. As the days passed, concern grew. The hurricane’s rate of speed, and its current latitude and longitude, were given to Florida residents at each news report.

Being a new resident of Florida, and never having experienced a hurricane, I was a careful listener to these reports and to the advice on how to prepare for this cosmic-influenced happening.

As an astrologer, I was curious to see if the planetary patterns might foretefl something I could recognize. A newly purchased Digicomp DR-70 computer provided the usual geocentric (Earth-centered) planetary positions. As I studied the chart created, I remembered that those dealing with solar and radio disturbances used the heliocentric (Sun-centered) planetary positions.

My new computer had a button marked “helio.” I had never even pressed it. Now I did. It was to be an important moment in my life - but I did not comprehend this at the time.

The helio chart was drawn and the two systems compared. Both had highly stressed configurations but I thought the heliocentric pattern looked worse than the geocentric. Mars was aspecting both Venus and Saturn; Mercury was forming a square to Pluto. All in all, it appeared to me that it was going to be a killer hurricane. Unfortunately, I was correct. It damaged the east coast of Florida and finally moved out to sea where its destructive force ebbed away. It was now the first week in September. The Labor Day weekend had proved to be a laboring period as precautionary meas­ures were taken, preparations were made, and then had to be changed back.

The hurricane became a memory but that “hello” button on my computer was sitting right in front of me, It had proved to be so easy to use. My curiosity led me to punch my birth data into the computer to see what the heliocentric planetary pattern might look like. I automatically, without thinking, drew the planetary positions into the familiar circle of houses of my timed chart. Virgo on the 1st house.

With this first experience, I was immediately intrigued with how pre­cisely the hello planets and the patterns formed described certain charac­ter traits and attitudes I have - especially some I have tried vainly to overcome.

Using standard or commonly accepted interpretations for the planetary positions and patterns, this helio chart contained answers my geocentric horoscope simply did not provide. Fascinating!

The next and quite natural step was to see where the hello planets were at the time my marriage partner was born • More surprises and revela­tions - even more than in my own chart. I could also compare our charts. The shift in the planets from geocentric to heliocentric showed up a number of previously unrevealed exact aspects between our charts which were of major importance. For example: A Jupiter-Moon conjunction was found to be exact within a few minutes of a degree whereas the geocentric charts had these two planets about 100 apart.

An analysis of the two charts, with a comparison based on experiences spanning over three decades of marriage, showed so many remarkably accurate astrological points that a more thorough investigation seemed to be decid­edly in order.


It would be far from the truth to assume an immediate and enthusiastic acceptance of heliocentric planets into the horoscope. I abhor complica­tions and hello planets were a complication. My goal is always to simplify.

The early part of my investigation was a concentrated effort to see if some way of obtaining the same information in the geocentric chart could be found. A wary, cautious, even resentful questioning attended every step taken until the evidence of the unique importance of hello positions be­came overwhelming.

I finally conceded. I did not even realize I had capitulated until a friend asked me to give an interpretation of a horoscope. I refused to even consider it until I had included the heliocentric planets. The chart no longer seemed complete without this additional information only the heliocentric planetary positions could provide.

Between these two periods of time - discovery and acceptance - many thousands of different kinds of charts were tested in a variety of ways. With each new experience, any apprehension or resentment felt over “cluttering up the horoscope” faded away a bit more.

Heliocentric planetary positions simply cannot be termed “clutter.” There is nothing hypothetical, or even questionable, about them. They are acceptable from a scientific standpoint and are used by those in the sciences to obtain information on cosmic stresses or harmony.

Even though astrologers are seeking information on cosmic stresses or harmony, for they have learned these things reflect into a person’s life, they have concentrated their efforts through the geocentric system. With so much remarkably accurate information obtained in this way, serious gaps in knowledge were explained away with the quite reasonable excuses of undiscovered planets, inaccurate data, inexperienced astrologers, a lack of research reports, difficulties in obtaining data sufficient for research projects, and so on. The list is long to explain the many “misses” among the many “hits.”

Nevertheless, I am personally bewildered by the lack of investigation of heliocentric planetary positions. This bewilderment caused me to go back over my findings very carefully to reassure myself that I was indeed finding a veritable gold mine of information.

I was especially careful in studying those charts in which geocentric positions seemed to be responding to heliocentric planets. A concentration of effort was made in studying helio planets aspecting the Sun - for theoretically this is against all the rules. The same situation applied to the Moon: a sate1lite of the Earth.

I am fully aware that I have ignored many so-called “rules” in my approach to using these heliocentric planetary positions. But it should be remembered that these “rules” are only theories which seem reasonable. That nature does not always work in a way we consider “reasonable” is all too obvious. It hasn’t been too long since everyone assumed the Earth was flat; it seemed a reasonable assumption. The fellow who began telling his medical colleagues that little tiny bugs, which he called “germs,” were the cause of many illnesses was laughed at hysterically. Theoretically, the bumble bee can’t fly, but the bumble bee doesn’t know this and keeps flying.

It appears to me that both the heliocentric and geocentric planetary positions and patterns evoke a response and in ways which seem quite unreasonable “theoretically.” I cannot explain why this is so. All I can do is say, “Look what I have found.”

The most important thing to me at this time is to share my discovery with other astrologers because I believe that I have found a rich source of accurate information which is not always found in the geocentric charts. As a matter of fact, I consider this to be the most exciting discovery I have experienced since I first learned how much astrology has to offer.

I urge astrologers to add the heliocentric planetary positions to the horoscope for I believe it will revolutionize every phase of astrology and astrological practice in a positive, productive way. It will increase our number of “hits” and reduce our number of “misses.”


Early experiments were conducted in what is best described as a “shotgun” approach. They were thoroughly scattered. Charts were randomly selected from my files which are divided into a variety of categories. A heliocentric chart for the birth data of the person was constructed and analysed. This question was asked: “Does this new information add anything to the chart, or in understanding the person, which is not apparent in the usual geocentric pattern?”

In a number of cases where the life experience was quite dramatic, I found hello patterns or planetary positions which repeated those found in the geo chart. The information was the same or it had similar connotations.

In other charts, I did not find repeated patterns but entirely new information. A critical appraisal of the new information brought me to the conclusion that it did indeed add vital new facts. Elements of the person’s nature or experiences, for which I could find no easy or logical explanation in the geo chart, were openly present through the hello planets.

While following this procedure, many questions arose with regard to inserting the planets into the normal framework of the houses because the houses are essentially Earth-centered. But the validity of the hello planets’ positions in the houses was too quickly apparent to consider proceeding any other way. They worked! The planets in the houses were providing their own validity.

Nevertheless, I decided it was wise to test their potency in producing a response. The Midheaven and Ascendant of the chart were progressed to the time an aspect would be formed to the hello planet. Did this period of time coincide with an experience related to that planet’s influence in the sign and in the house? Yes!

Discovering a response in this way, the next step was to test a planet’s responsiveness to secondary progressions. The secondary progression button was activated on my computer and the date of an event was punched in. The progressed positions came up on the screen and I drew them into the ring surrounding the natal chart. This was the exact same procedure used for the geo system. On this experiment, I used my own chart.

An event was selected at random. The progressed hello position of Mercury was 10' Leo - in opposition to my Sun in the geocentric chart. The progressed helio Venus was square the Mercury in my geocentric chart (an observation automatically noted), but both positions also simultaneously tied into a dynamic pattern in my hello chart. More complications.

Theoretically, the Sun should not be included in a heliocentric chart because the Sun is at the center. However, the Earth would be at the opposite point from the Sun in a geo chart. In other words, when my hello Mercury was at 10° Leo, it was conjunct the Earth’s position at my birth. Mercury conjunct the Earth, or opposite the place of the Sun in the geo system, just happened to be a configuration not mentioned in interpretive books. Neither was Venus square Mercury, the Sun, or the Earth.

Considering the pattern of focus generally, and with standard interpretations associated with the planets, it was so descriptive of the circumstances that I was astounded. The event selected for testing was the beginling of our going into business for ourselves rather than working for others. The overall situation could not have been more appropriately signified, at least in my estimation.

Was this a coincidence? Would progressed hello planets work with consistency? It was time to make this test.

With extensive records and dates of events on my own life, it seemed advisable to make the first test using my chart. An entire series of charts was constructed on events from my earliest years to the present. Progressed and transiting heliocentric planets were used. A series of charts in the geo system was already available for comparison.

Which chart would be more accurate in representing the circumstances of the time? Could one or the other of the systems be discarded? Were they both necessary? Could it be that the helio system would prove superior to the geo system or would the geo chart be able to maintain its dominance? Questions such as these were spinning through my mind.

In the series of charts on my own life, I experienced a complication in resolving quickly many of the questions I wanted answered. In one event, the geocentric chart was clearly superior but on the next event the heliocentric won hands down. The entire group of charts operated this way.

Would the same situation be found in the charts of other people? Tests were conducted on a wide assortment of people who had a variety of experiences during their lives. I even included such notables as the famous artist-inventor, Leonardo da Vinci of the 11400’s, just to make sure the response I was finding was not confined to the present for some strange reason.

The same general results were found. Occasionally, a chart was found where the person seemed to respond more consistently to one or the other systems but this was uncommon. I always found what appeared to be some kind of response to both systems, but the degree of response was often difficult to establish because of the interweaving planetary patterns frequently found

One particular chart stands out in my memory of a woman who is a most uniquely accomplished individual in a number of totally different ways. She appeared to have a consistently stronger response to the geocentric than to the heliocentric planets at the time of her most publicized successes. The difference in her chart from those of most of the others tested was her stationary planets. She had Aquarius on the Ascendant and the Uranus-ruler was stationary in the natal chart. She also had Venus stationary. At the time she made international headlines for an outstanding achievement, her progressed Venus was stationary and the transiting Venus was at its station.

Stationary planets are a cosmic event applicable only to the geocentric system. Their dynamic potency has been pointed out in two of my prior research reports: “Astrologer’s Condensed Manual” and “Sexual Assaults: Pre-Identifying Those Vulnerable” in which they have been extensively treated. It would appear that they maintain their potency regardless of the system used.


With no copying machine available, the time-consuming and arduous task of drawing two separate charts for each event finally aroused me to seek a more efficient way of testing the two systems. There was no doubt in my mind that the two types of charts and systems should be kept separate. The thought of an interaction never occurred to me. A need for a more efficient way of comparing the two systems was the deciding factor which led to the next discovery.

I began putting both planetary systems into the same circle of houses. To keep them clearly separate, I used black ink for the geocentric planets and green ink for the heliocentric. The chart was then progressed in both systems to the time of an event and included the vital progressed Midheaven and Ascendant. Transits in both systems were the final part of the complex picture. The almost-doubled group of planets in the circle of houses certainly required getting used to. Neatness counts under such circumstances!

With the two combined, an interaction was immediately apparent. I mentally rejected it as a fluke happening - a coincidence. The concept of an interaction jarred my sense of logic. They were two entirely different systems. It was like mixing apples and oranges.

To this day, it remains a nagging question in my mind, difficult to understand or accept, but my negativity was over-ruled repeatedly by the precision of the aspects and the surprising appropriateness of the conrigurations for the event or circumstances.

My capitulation even to considering an interaction came about through a personal experience. We were building a home under boom-town conditions where the demand for workers in the building trades exceeded the supply. The contractor’s promise of a completion date had passed months before. Delays were costly and budgetary allowances had to be made for them. My general long-term aspects were excellent but not useful in ascertaining a precise date when we could occupy our new home. A variety of astrological techniques was tried with contradictory information received.

Jupiter rules the Sagittarian sign on the cusp of my 4th house - the area of the chart associated with the home. I noticed that my progressed hello Mercury was very close to forming a trine to my natal Jupiter, but it was the geocentric Jupiter so I immediately discounted it. It would be a considerable length of time before Mercury would aspect the Jupiter in the hello system - and that was a worry.

Activity on the home picked up and suddenly required my constant attention. Astrological research was abandoned to take care of details on finishing the one house, selling another house and moving. I was too busy to glance at an ephemeris.

Only after I moved in did I take time to check planetary positions. Yes, the fast-moving hello Mercury had progressed to the exact - to the minute - trine of my geocentric Jupiter on the day I slept in my new home for the first time. With this experience, I felt it necessary to begin checking out the possibility that there might be an interaction. In my own chart, it was the only aspect of any kind which was so clear and precise - a helio planet to a geo planet!

Only with repeated and frequent observations of very close aspects could an interaction be considered. I could think of no other way to test this unique and bewildering situation. Having now seen so many seeming interactions, I can only comment that if none exists, then there are an amazing number of coincidences.

The uniting of the two charts into one brought still more information to the forefront which was totally new to astrology. I was studying the chart of someone well-known to me and noticed that he had one Mercury exactly square the position of the other Mercury. Would this, or would this not have a meaning? I began watching for charts with this pattern. After collecting a nice size sample, the question was asked, “What do these people have in common?” The answer was easily forthcoming because it was such a noticeable part of their nature. They were all incessantly busy, active talkers and travelers. They could hardly sit still. Their minds and tongues moved rapidly at all times. They were extravagant communicators a Mercury activity!

This discovery opened up a whole new field to research and test. It was in this area, especially, that I found answers to baffling questions that had plagued me for years; they had always remained unanswerable. But no longer. It was a rewarding discovery. While I do not claim to have plumbed the depths of the meaning of such aspects as Mercury opposite Mercury or Sun square or trine Venus, I have confidence in what I have written for it is based on the charts of real people who are either known to me or well-known to everyone and with extensive biographical information available. By the time this study was completed, my files of charts were so well-thumbed that it looked like the Labor Day hurricane had hit here in central Florida instead of swiping only the east coast.

Another very satisfying discovery was briefly mentioned earlier: Finding repeating patterns and configurations with similar connotations in each system. This, too, provided information I had been seeking for years - how to ascertain the magnitude of a particular drive in the life or circumstances. When both systems contained the same information, the resulting response was magnified tremendously into a clear power-structure.

Finding a financial power-structure answered the question of why two people from poor baäkgrounds, but with essentially good 2nd house income potential, could have such different results in the amount of money made. One made a good living; the other became a millionaire.

Finding a violent-type power-structure answered the question of why one person merely has a nasty temper, but another person with a similar configuration in the geocentric chart will go out and kill - a vitally important question to have answered! Power-structures became more clearly defined only when the two charts were united.

The general overall interpretation of the chart, with regard to talents, interests, obstacles, health and so on took on a clarity and a greater completeness with the two systems united into one picture. In most cases, the new information could be verified immediately. As of this time, I have had no experience in which the added information has proved to be invalid.

At no time have I seen any reason to believe that the standard interpretations of the influences associated with a planet in a sign or house needs to be revised to accoznodate the different system. The same holds true with regard to the aspects between planets. What this means to the practicing astrologer is that very little new in the way of interpretations, or reading a chart, must be learned. Only a few new calculations must be made to insert the hello planets into the chart.


Every astrologer eventually is challenged by the need to rectify a chart. This mind-boggling operation of trying to find one particular moment of birth, which suitably answers every event on which the birth time is tested, has broken the spirits of many astrologers throughout the ages.

It has also resulted in gross changes in the recorded birth times to suit astrologers’ concepts and experiences of planetary influence.

The validity of many of these changes in the birth time must now be questioned. Those people who have never been satisfied with the accuracy of the way their charts work, and who have experimented with many charts seeking one time of birth which has a consistency of operation, are likely to find that inserting the hello planets into the chart will resolve many or all of the problems encountered. I would suspect that a return to the recorded birth time, or quite close to it, will provide these people with the precise horoscope they have been seeking.


My honesty forces me to admit that the Sun, Moon, and the Lunar Nodes were automatically included in my early investigation of hello planets simply out of habit - nothing more. Playing with my computer and simple curiosity were at the forefront of my consciousness. It was neither a stroke of genius that they were included or the result of a divine revelation. It was dumb luck.

Later, as I became increasingly intrigued with what I was finding, I had to face the fact that these astronomical factors should be left out of a heliocentric chart. I was going against all the “rules” of procedure in such matters. By this time, however, I had made too many observations of what appeared to be a resounding response.

Much fretting and stewing followed. The Capricorn in me wanted to follow the rules rigidly. The Aquarius in me wanted to seek truth no matter where .or how it might be found. The Sagittarius in me urged me to take a chance and hope for the best. The Virgo in me cautioned against accepting anything which did not work with precision in all the details.

For those unfamiliar with the problems presented, a brief explanation will be given. If the Sun is used as the center, it cannot be placed in a chart at 20°Sagittarius, for example. But the Earth’s position is calculated from the Sun’s position and so if it appears to us that the Sun is 20° Sagittarius, then the Earth would be at the opposite point of 20° Gemini. The Earth is used, instead of the Sun, and is placed at the opposite point from where the Sun would be in an Earth-centered system.

While I could have removed the Sun and substituted the Earth, for the purposes of my study, it didn’t seem to make so much difference which side was occupied. I opted for leaving the Sun in its familiar focal point. The symbol for the Earth, a cross with a circle around it, has been usurped in astrologers’ minds as the symbol denoting the Part of Fortune. Confusion would result if a transfer had to be made in the mind.

The Moon is a satellite of the Earth and does not move around the Sun as a planet but around the planet Earth as it circles the Sun with the other planets. If the Moon of the Earth has to be placed in a hello chart, it would have to be shown immediately adjacent to the position of the Earth.

The Lunar Nodes are mathematical points which show the current relationship between the Sun, Moon and Earth. They are used to calculate solar and lunar eclipses and are entirely related to the Earth as a center point.

The allocation of signs to the cusps of the houses of a timed horoscope is also entirely based on the Earth being at the center - rather than the Sun. The signs change constantly as the result of the rotation of the Earth.

All in all, I was breaking a formidible number of rules in proceeding as I did. But no one was looking over my shoulder at the time to criticize and so I continued. From the very beginning, I had noted the appropriateness of the hello positions of the planets in the houses of the timed horoscope. Some very convincing arguments would be required for me to take them out of this setting.

Later, as I observed clear-cut responses to the position of the Sun and Moon and noted the continued activity of the Nodes at critical changes in one’s life, I registered bewilderment and pondered the implications of all this extensively. Whether I was breaking the rules or not, the precision of what I was observing was so remarkable that I did not know what to do except continue the investigation. Enlightenment might occur at some point farther on. Then the apparent interaction between the two systems was observed. This was especially baffling to me - and still is. Nevertheless, if an interaction occurs, then it offers a validation of my procedure.

In the last two decades, the need for information by the space agency has produced information applicable to astrology. We have learned that the planets circling the Sun apply pressure on the Sun through gravitational fields. These fields vary in strength and focus as the result of the planetary patterns formed. The Sun responds to this pressure with tidal disturbances; the huge solar flares are a dramatic response to this pressure.

This activity of the Sun changes our magnetic field very quickly. In other words, we can record the change almost instantly on the Earth. The heliocentric system is used to calculate these pressures the planets are exerting on the Sun.

Centuries of empirical observations by astrologers has convinced all of us that there is a clear response to planetary patterns formed in a relationship where the Earth is taken as the center. It is not unreasonable to assume the possibility, at least for now, that the planetary influences reach us in two ways: through the Earth-centered system as well as through the Sun-centered system, or directly as well as in a reflective or reactive action from the Sun. Both are registered within our bodies with a consequent mingling or interaction. That the heliocentric system should find its focus through the Earth-oriented houses does not seem unreasonable, either.


There was a great desire to find a way to test my apparent discoveries. I needed a test to satisfy my own mind that I had not escaped from reality. Two people with statistical backgrounds were contacted and asked for suggestions on how to proceed.

Their responses were carefully considered and I spent much time trying to devise a way to follow their suggestions on conducting a “scientif ically acceptable” test of my findings.

Every procedure analyzed proved to be filled with so many inherent problems that I could see before I started that I would labor mightily and end up with nothing conclusive or usable. In effect, I would have proved nothing either way. I would have masses of numbers which were meaningless.

For example: Progressed hello Venus to a conjunction of the Sun appeared to hold a promise of resolving several questions at the same time. Theoretically, the Sun should not be shown in a hello chart and there should not be an experience clearly related to the drives associated with either Venus or the Sun when they formed a union. Such a test also could have a validating effect on the efficacy of progressions based on a day-for-a-year -if it worked.

I collected charts of those who had experienced this conjunction of hello Venus to the Sun. I carefully noted the period of time when the conjunction occurred and the life experiences at the time. It was at this point that I began to see the complications in resolving the issue at a scientifically acceptable level, at least as this is presently established.

The first problem was found in not having a group of charts where the Sun was in the same sign, in the same house, or ruled the same house through Leo’s position on the timed chart. The sign placement and the house influences were dynamically activated and colored the results tremendously.

The second problem was that Venus ruled a variety of things in the group of charts and added these factors to the final results.

The third problem was found through the sex and age of the individual. Children and women responded to this conjunction differently from adults or men.

The fourth problem was in finding a variety of aspects to the Sun in the natal chart which had a powerful influence on the final results.

The fifth problem was realized through observing that, all too often, other aspects were simultaneously effective and sometimes had similar connotations or implicated the Venus-Sun union. How could the separate influences be established?

The sixth problem was that it indicated a time when the person felt happy and optimistic, but if the Sun was powerfully afflicted this happiness was fleeting and a rapid dissolution into a state of devastation followed quickly. When these people were asked about the period of time involved, their answers reflected the composite experiences.

No one will dispute the existence of the state of being happy and content, but it is an entirely subjective condition which occurs on a sliding scale ranging from minimal to deleriously happy. In any single day, one may experience the full range of this condition. The problem is that being happy and content does not lend itself readily to being transferred into a number which can be punched into a computer.

The seventh problem concerns statisticians who would decide whether or not a test was “scientifically acceptable.” They always seem to be far more knowledgeable about statistics than they are about astrology. There are too many who would find something to criticize or fault with a sample of immense proportions simply as an exercise of their Mercury-Mars links sans Venus. They conveniently overlook the fact that the basic principles of astrology, which have withstood the tests of time - such as Mars being associated with aggression - were developed by people with only a handful of charts to study - certainly not a sample of 71,535 charts! And even with this number of charts in a sample, these statisticians would have to withhold judgment that anything had really been proven!

In the process of studying my Venus-to-Sun conjunction charts, while honestly trying to find a way to test them, I was able to satisfy myself that there was indeed an effective response clearly associated with the time of the union in the chart. Several of these are presented in this book to show the variety of experiences possible and how all the chart factors blended.

At the present time, I have been unable to figure a way around all the problems which must be confronted for meaningful and useful results. While I mentioned only Venus-to-Sun, other combinations and types of tests were analyzed to see if they would prove easier to handle. Similar or different problems arose each time.

For now, I have abandoned attempts to make a “scientifically acceptable” test and am hoping others, with more statistical expertise to accompany extensive astrological knowledge, can find a way to weave through this maze to the desired goal. My conclusions must be evaluated by colleagues in the old-fashioned empirical way.

The complexity of this science/art almost defies the imagination. only those who have been imvolved with it daily for a number of years can fully appreciate this statement. Astrology has starkly simple principles set amid infinite complexities.

Albert Einstein understood such situations as this and in his book, “Out of My Later Years,” published in 1950, he made a statement which is applicable to astrology.

“To be sure, when the number of factors coming into play in a phenomenological complex is too large, scientific method in most cases fails us. One need only think of the weather, in which case prediction even for a few days ahead is impossible. Nevertheless, no one doubts that we are confronted with a causal connection whose causal components are in the main known to us. Occurrences in this domain are beyond the reach of exact prediction because of the variety of factors in operation, not because of any lack of order in nature.”


1] Inserting the heliocentric positions of the planets at birth into a geocentric horoscope will, revolutionize the practice of astrology in every phase of its application. Bewildering gaps of knowledge are closed. Power-structures are found. The horoscope becomes sharper, clearer and easier to interpret correctly.

2] Neither chart is adequate by itself. Both the geocentric and the heliocentric positions of the planets are required for the greatest accuracy.

3] The influence of the helio planets is not confined to any single level of being but functions on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual level in the same way as the geo planets.

LI] Progressed helio planets, using the day-for-a-year technique, were found to operate as effectively as geo-progressed planets.

5] Transit positions of helio planets were found to be as effective as those in the geocentric system.

6] The position of the helio planets should be calculated with the same procedure followed in calculating the gao planets: The GMT for the time of birth is used to interpolate between the positions given in an ephemeris for the day of birth and the day following.


1] The helio planets in a sign and in a house should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the geo positions have always been treated. They denote another facet of interest or drives in the person which are as powerfully felt as those of the gao position.

2] The hello planets in aspect to other hello planets should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the same type of aspect has always been interpretred for geo planetary positions.

[Also see Whole Chart Patterns by Michael Erlwine]

3) When a helio planet is within a couple of degrees of an aspect to the Midheaven or Ascendant, its power in the life is considerably stronger than if no contact is made. It becomes a dominating influence under these circumstances and should be interpreted according to the basic principles associated with the planet and its sign location.

14] When hello planets aspect gao planets, and most especially between fast-moving planets, the orb should be kept narrow and they should be interpreted according to their basic nature of influence.

5] A strongly aspected hello planet is more significant in the life than one weakly aspectad in the same way as with geo planets.

6] A hello planet without strong aspects, or with no aspects, will operate through its sign and house position rather independently as an interest separate from the rest of the life. It should be interpreted in this way. It will prove to be a more “pure” manifestation of the planet in a sign and house than those blending interests through aspects.

7] When the rulership of a house finds the two locations of the ruling planet widely separated in the chart, the interests will be spread to both placements. It will not be weakened- it will go in both directions.

EXAMPLE: If Mercury rules the 7th house in the chart and one Mercury is found in the 5th house while the other Mercury is found in the 9th house, both positions will describe the marriage partner to an amazing degree. It will also describe the mental interests and drives of the individual represented by the horoscope.

8] While there is an interaction between the geo and hello systems, I suspect that an aspect between planets in the same system is more potent than when the two systems are mixed. Great difficulty has accompanied straightening out this magnitude of influence between the two systems.

9] In the progressed horoscope, the factors operating with the closest precision in the aspects formed, and most especially those being “touched” by the natal or progressed Midheaven or Ascendant, will be the most activated and responsive at that time - regardless of whether they are geo or helio planets.


1] Power-structures are formed when the same type of information is found in the geo positions as in the hello positions of the planets, or if the geo and hello blend forces to accentuate the contact. If the angles of the chart are also in close contact with the planetary pattern, it is safe to assume that the meaning of the pattern will be of the greatest possible importance to the entire life.

2] Power-structures may be indicated through aspects, through house locations, through sign locations, through equivalent-type significators, through contact with one or both of the angles of the chart, and through an interaetion between the geo and hello positions.

3] Power-structures provide the astrologer with a clearer picture of the magnitude of a talent, character traits, personal circumstances, obstacles and/or advantages which will be unique in their manifestation. EXAMPLE: Those with an intensely magnified financial picture of advantages or luck shown through both the hello and geo patterns may be born poor but become extremely wealthy. Those born into a stable, wealthy financial situation will not have the same kind of picture for it is a part of their personal circumstances from the beginning and no effort is required to manifest this fortune.


1] A much greater precision is possible through the addition of hello planets. Therefore, a much narrower orb of influence between planets in aspects is recommended than accepted previously.

2] The addtion of hello planets to the horoscope will provide a graphic picture on why such wide orbs of influence were felt necessary when only the geo planets were being used. This Is especially true of Jupiter, whose extension of influence has generated consideration that its massive size and multiple Moons spread out from it might be responsible for the need to broaden its sphere of influence beyond those given to other planets. The number of degrees between the geo and hello positions of Jupiter can vary from a conjunction to around 12°.

3] The closer the aspect is to exactness between planets, the more powerfully it will operate in the life. This is as true for geo-to-helio planets as for hello-to-hello planets as well as for geo-to-geo planets.

4] Natal chart aspects between hello and geo planets should not extend beyond a 3° orb unless another planet is positioned in such a manner that it creates a bridge-of-influence which will broaden the effect. In any case, this would rarely extend beyond a 4° orb. Aspects with a 3°-to-4° orb should be considered weak. It is in this area that extensive experience is decidedly helpful. There is a reluctance to lay down hard and fast rules without noting that there are various situations which will provide exceptions. FOR EXAMPLE: If slow moving progressions are moving to tighten the natal aspect, a slightly wider orb could be effective. While this would be the result of progressions, the lengthy or life-time influence would operate as though a close aspect existed in the natal chart.

5] Progressed aspects should be maintained at the usual 1° orb of influence although there have been occasions noted where a few minutes beyond the exact 1° was obviously effective through its appropriateness in describing the situation. The usual cause of this appears to be an early precipitation into response through the exactness of other strong factors operating simultaneously. The cumulative influences of several indicators working within the same time span will quicken an aspect which is still a bit wide of the exact 1° rule.

6] Transits may be allowed an orb up to 2° from exactness, but 2° should be considered wide. It is not uncommon to find transit conjunctions exact to the minute or within minutes of exactness. The hello transits to helio planets should be considered a little stronger in effectiveness than to a geo planet, or visa versa, but if they are simultaneously moving to a cross-over or interaction, the aspects formed should be considered quite powerful. EXAMPLE: Natal geo Jupiter 2° Aries with natal !telio Jupiter at 13° Aries. If hello Mars is transiting across geo Jupiter while geo Mars is transiting across the hello Jupiter at the same time, the aspect should be considered dynamically effective - very powerful!

Revolutionizing Astrology With Heliocentric -Chapter 1

by T Patrick Davis PMAFA 1980

T. Pat wrote six books based on her extensive research. Mostly self-published, all are available through Astro America Link